No. 273. — Notes of several Conversations with A. and B., Colliery View and Owners.

The putters are paid in proportion to the difficulty of the putting. They would never exceed their power and strength. Boys are never seen lamed or distorted. The sickness amongst pit boys is not more than amongst other labourers. The labour is moderate and promotes perspiration. The drivers always work in places supported by timber &c. [the rolley-way], if requisite and therefore they do not suffer from falls of stone so much as the putters who are constantly in the working places. The putter put in cavils once a fortnight for the ways and once a quarter for the cranes. The hewers 'cavil' once a quarter. Hewers are paid by the score and from half to a score and half of coals, according to the circumstances, is a day's work for a hewer. The prices vary in same colliery and in different collieries perhaps from 3s. 6d. a score to 9s. or 10s. a score. Furtherance is a consideration for young men of an age to hew, who are obliged to put. Furtherance is generally 4d. a score. Most difficulty exists with the putters. Men more easily managed than the putters. There is a difference in the manageability of lads in districts bordering upon each other. A good many moved at the last binding from here to the Wear; perhaps 20 moved from here out of about 90 and 20 from Towneley out of about 115. Boys and men go with one jacket to the pit in summer and two jackets winter. Usually they work in knee drawers and a flannel shirt down the pit. In many places they would work naked if they had not some remnant of shame. They have capital bait down the pit. They do not eat a heavy meal when they get home. Have seen lads with rashers of bacon of great size. Few pitmen wear spectacles. Boys clean nothing, whether machinery or not, when moving. Pit boys work independently of each other. Do not bind trappers here. At some collieries they bind such men as waggonmen and keelmen. Keelmen are bound at Towneley. Wages are paid to boys or parents as it happens. Generally they pay at offices and pay generally in gold, silver and copper. The difference in stature between pitmen and others is not striking and pit lads differ but little in size from other lads. Pitmen sometimes run away to sea, &c. and come hack again to the pit. Pitmen do not live to great ages. Men who arrive at some age often get wastemen's places, &c. and places of great trust. The average pay for hewers here is now about 3s. 6d. per day. They have their houses quite free, and pay 3d. a-week for the leading of their coal, which is supplied gratis. The number of putters is proportioned to the number of hewers and the distance the coals have to be brought to the crane and perhaps putters are two to one to hewers; hardly so much. If the trappers at any time are bound for the greatest exigence and fewer should be wanted, they are laid idle in turns. Often more may be bound than are wanted, in order to keep the families together. Changes in ventilation change the quantity of trappers. Colliery agents are men who would never overwork the men or boy's, or deal hardly with them. Pitmen may be idle at the binding for a few days sometimes, in consequence of some altercation about prices. Working by separation is always producing disputes; they used to do so here. Separation is sending the large, or round coals away separately and the man is paid accordingly. But here, and in a great many collieries now, they fix an intermediate price for the whole together. If men are working in wet places, or meet with any difficulty, they are always paid accordingly. Prices are mostly points of dispute at the bindings. Men sign to the bond by crosses to save time. In disputes about the prices at bindings men are peaceable. In strikes pitmen are treacherous and would throw a stone from behind a hedge when they dare not meet you face to face. Viewers were obliged to travel with arms in the last strike. From the employment of men in new collieries. the men dismissed from old collieries are now at work, or there would be great distress in the trade. The leading men are able to express themselves on occasion of dispute and are put forward by the body of the men. Many of the disgraceful habits, cock-fighting, drinking, &c., are got down very much. There is a visible difference in most collieries. This may be partly from the Methodist chapels and from the effects of teetotalism. The greater portion of boys are educated now.

Hewers stay in the pit as long as they think proper. Putters have to fill the coals when the hewers leave. Education sometimes promotes a man. Clever men have been left for want of education. Any alteration in the working hours must have the result of injuring the collieries. If you had fewer men in at a time and thus made a double shift to work the coal, the standing establishment would be increased greatly in all collieries. No alteration can be made in any department of a colliery without deranging the whole.

Boys would not go down the pit for 5d. or 6d. for eight hours. Boys must be flogged to school. Government interference with their education is not desirable. Putters have to fill coals only after the hewers leave and they may perhaps get a third of the work to fill, though they are paid nothing additional for filling coals; it is in their day's work. In 'separation' working the hewers fill up the whole, because they are responsible for the whole. The 'toom' or empty corves are filled in turns. The collieries are greatly broken up now, and the men move about. The men move chiefly to the Wear and Auckland district. Men have been most difficult to deal with since the great strike in 1831.

No. 274. — George Soulsby.

Aged 16. Is called a chalker on; chalks down all the pit's work. Asks every waggon driver that passes him as he sits by the rolley way side what crane he come from; has each crane's name chalked down on a deal board and against the name he puts down what load of coals is being taken past him. The cranes are named by the boys and men such names as 'Black-horse,' 'Sandgate,' &c. At the end of the day's work the craneman comes, and counts what is chalked down, and puts it in a book and sends that book to the overman.

Goes down to work at 4 o'clock [a.m.], and comes up at 4 in the afternoon; takes his victuals down with him for the day; eats his breakfast, consisting of cold coffee brought down in a bottle and bread, when he wants it, or can get a few minutes time, generally about 8 o'clock; the same with his dinner, which generally is a bag of meat and bread; he then gets nothing more till he goes home; has as much as he wants to eat. He earns 2s. a-day; lives with his parents; gives his money to them; they treat him well; is happy and well in health. The overman and men often find fault with him but never beat him. Sometimes, and generally now, works at Heaton Pit.

No. 275. — Joseph Rousaby.

Aged 15. Is a stone leader; puts away the stones in a heap by the side. Goes down at 2 o'clock [a.m.], comes up at 12 o'clock in the day. Gets 1s. 8d. per day.

No. 276. — William Giles.

Aged 15. Is a craneman. Hoists the corve from the tram on to the rolley; keeps account on a deal what hewer the corve comes from. Goes down at 5 [a.m.], comes up at 5 [p.m.]. Gets 2s. a-day. A bottle of warm coffee comes down to him in the corf at breakfast. Takes meat and bread down for dinner.

No. 277. — Hugh Coamby.

Aged 14. Is a wood leader. Carries in the props that support the roof. Gets 1s. 8d. a-day. Goes down at 2 [a.m.], comes up at 5 o'clock [a.m.]. His father is overman, and he thinks he is better off on that account. Is a teacher in the Methodist Sunday-school.

These four preceding witnesses all read [well], write and spell; go to night-schools only occasionally, always to Sunday-school [Methodist]. They reply pretty well to general questions on moral and religious subjects.

No. 278. — Matthew Robson.

Aged 15. Leads stone. Goes down at 2 [a.m.] comes up when the men do at 12 or 1 or sometimes 2 o'clock. Gets 1s. 8d. a-day. Takes meals down with him &c. Has no father; his mother is letter-carrier; is rather delicate in health [and appearance] and sometimes feels faint but not form the fault of work.

No. 279. — James Whitfield.

Aged 15. Is a driver. His work is not hard. Goes down at 5 [a.m.], comes up at 5 [p.m.] Gets 1s. 3d. per diem. Lives with his parents; gives his wages to them. His coffee for breakfast comes down; takes down a bag of cold meat and bread and has as much as he wants. Goes to night-school.

No. 280. — William Arnold.

Is a driver, aged 14. Works in the same pit, in the same way and lives in the same way. Goes to night-school.

[These three witnesses (278 to 280) all go to Sunday-school; all read, spell pretty well and write].

No. 281. — Thomas Cockburn.

Aged 13 years. Leads stones. Goes at 2, comes up at 2 [p.m.]. Gets 1s. 8d. Takes the stones out of the corves and puts them in a heap. Thinks he is worked rather too hard and is sometimes unwell.

No. 282. — John Kennedy.

Eleven years old. Hangs on tokens on corves. Gets 1s. 3s. a-day.

No. 283. — William Donelly.

Thirteen years old. A driver, and gets 1s. 3d. a-day.

No. 284. — John Johnson.

Eleven years old. Hangs on tokens. Gets 1s. 3d. a-day.

No. 285. — Edward Donelly.

Thirteen years old. Cleans the tram-way from coal and muck with two pieces of hemp and gets 10d. a-day.

No. 286. — George Donelly.

Trapper. Gets 10d. a-day. Is 12 years old.

No. 287. — Three boys, a trapper, a driver, and a trapper, aged respectively 10, 10, and 8 years.

Of these 7 witnesses (viz. 281 to 287 inclusive) but 3 go to night-school. All go to Sunday-school. Most of them read, at least imperfectly; few spell or write; do not readily answer questions on the subjects of their instruction at the Sunday-school. None of them have complaints to make; but they observe, that such as have fathers are, in their opinions, better taken care of in their work. These witnesses arc not often scolded, seldom or never struck and very rarely work more than half an hour over-time.

No. 288. — J. Aitchison, Surgeon.

Sir,

Carville, April 8, 1841.

I have not been long in practice at Carville, therefore am very unable to give you a satisfactory account with respect to boys employed in collieries. As far as my observation goes, there is no particular disease more than another which they are subject to; generally speaking, they enjoy pretty good health. They are placed in the pit when very young, which checks the growth of the body; and when they attain the age of puberty they seldom exhibit the well developed, vigorous and muscular appearance which people present who are employed in the open air. I have observed pitmen to be very subject to hernia and am inclined to believe they are more afflicted with it than other classes of labouring people. That is all the information that I am able to give at present.

I am, &c.,

(Signed)

J. Aitchison, Surgeon.